Sajita : Menj's article which I found in his page titled "Is Jesus God? Think About It!" by Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi. Look, how he tried to decive people..

MENJ : Did Jesus DENY Being God?

According to the Bible, he did....

Sajita : It is a big lie, nothing else...

MENJ : If I am standing in front of the IBM headquarters building, and a fellow employee unknowingly asked me "Is this your building, do you own this building? "

Then I replied "This Building is NOT MY OWN, but it belongs to The ONE WHO EMPLOYEES ME"
This would clarify to the person asking that I AM NOT THE OWNER, I am just one of the workers. I do not own the building (Universe) the one I work for owns it.

Another example is:
If I am at a gathering of people in a friend's house, and a fellow guest unknowingly asked me, "Is this your house?" I would reply "This is not my house but it is the house of the ONE WHO INVITED ME"
This would clarify to the fellow guest that again, I am NOT THE OWNER of the house.

Sajita : Yes, this would be your ANSWER because YOU are not the owner but JESUS’S case is different from yours. He is the owner of everything. Jesus is the sole creator of everything.

MENJ : Did Jesus make such statements regarding his status, the words, the will and the power he used? I urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context:

Sajita : Sure you have not only misquoted the Bible verse but took your own meaning of it…

MENJ :

WORDS
John 7:16 "Jesus answered them and said, 'My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.' "
John 14:24 "He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but The Father's who sent me."
John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak."

Sajita : And what do you think about this when Jesus said, “I and My Father are one."?
John 10:30 "I and My Father are one."
He is the same God who came down in the form of a man.

MENJ :

WILL :
John 4:34 "Jesus said to them, 'My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work.' "
John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me."
Luke 22:42 "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from me; nevertheless not my will, but Yours, be done."
Matthew 20:23 "...But sitting at my right hand or my left is not mine to give. That is for those to whom it has been reserved by my Father."

Sajita : Again the same answer…..

MENJ :

POWER
John 5:19 "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..."
John 5:30 "I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is righteous, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father who sent me."
John 8:42 "Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but He sent me.' "
John 15:2 "My Father takes away every branch in me that bears not fruit; he purges it; that it may bring forth more fruit." Here, we see Jesus' acknowledgement that he is an impefect sinner just like the rest of us; he too must be purged and purified.

Sajita : Wow, you have proved here that your QURAN IS WRONG!! Hey, hey.. now read this verse about Jesus from your QURAN:
Sura 19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

It says about Jesus "HOLY SON"And also Hadith says that, devil touches every child on their birth but he could not touch Jesus...

And for your information, Jesus is not the branch but Jesus is the vine. Branches are His believer. Don’t take verses out of context….

MENJ : John 8:31 "You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God” This verse is one of the most explicit statements of Jesus denying divinity for it clearly defines Jesus' position that he is subject to God and not God Himself. One only has to ask a simple question: Does God hears the truth from Himself?

Sajita : hey, what Bible you are quoting? NKJV says like this:-
John 8:31, "Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed."

DON’T MAKE NEW BIBLE PLEASE..

MENJ :

KNOWLEDGE
Mark 13:32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."
John 7:16 So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me"
We quickly notice that according to the Biblical Jesus, God is omniscient, but Jesus is not. God has a superior intellect to Jesus; in other words, God knows something that Jesus does not know. Another clear proof that they are not equal.

Sajita : What about your eyes and ears, do you think they are equal? Do you think that your eyes can hear too and ears can see too? If your answer is NO then I can say that some major problems is in your body..

MENJ :

MOSAIC LAW
The next few quotes from the Bible show us that Jesus was a devout and learned Jew, a rabbi:
"Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and his reputation spread throughout the region. He was teaching in their synagogues, and all were loud in his praise. He came to Nazareth where he had been reared, and entering the synagogue on the sabbath as he was in the habit of doing, he stood up to do the reading." Luke 4:14-

Sajita : Where do this verses say that Jesus was learned Jew? He is the very word of God and when He spoke people amazed that how He speaks with this much authority and power?

Mat 7:28, "And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching,"
Mat 7:29, "for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes."

MENJ : The worship of God was always focal in his life, even as a child. The second chapter of Luke tells us a very touching story of Jesus as a precociously wise child of twelve, sitting for days among the scholars. His family had accidentally left him in Jerusalem after their annual visit for the Passover. Nearly frantic, they searched for him:
"On the third day they came upon him in the temple sitting in the midst of the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. All who heard him were amazed at his intelligence and his answers. When his parents saw him they were astonished, and his mother said to him: "Son, why have you done this to us? You see that your father and I have been searching for you in sorrow." He said to them: "Why did you search for me? Did you not know I had to be in my Father's house?" Luke 2:46-49

Sajita : Jesus never worshipped any God. He is the very God and He need not to worship anybody. The verse you have quoted it does not say as Jesus worshipped any God?

MENJ :
VISIBILITY
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said:
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."
John 5:37 "Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape."
John 4:24 "God is a spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."

Sajita : I never understand why Muslims break the Bible verses and use as they want?????? Please don’t do that, it is never good. Read this verse in its entirety :

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Yes, no one saw God but Jesus declared Him and whoever saw Jesus they saw God.

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
John 14:11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

And whoever saw Jesus they saw God. And it is happening today itself. Whoever meets Jesus in his/her life he/she meets God, sees Him and knows Him personally.

MENJ :
STATUS
Jesus' statements throughout the Bible suggest that any idea of exalting him to divinity was unthinkable. Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said these following words:
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven."

Sajita : Why you people do not bother to read above and below verses? Sorry, it is taken totally out of context. Let me quote the verses which follows the above verse:

Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
Mat 7:16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Mat 7:17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

It clearly says about FALSE PROPHETS but not for God!!!

MENJ : Jesus would not even accept the praise of a man who called him good:
Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.' "
If Jesus would not even allow himself to be called good, he certainly would not claim divine qualities.

Sajita : Jesus is talking rationally here. And after few verse He says, "I am my father are one." By saying this Jesus made it clear that He is the same God who is good.

Not only that in Matthew Jesus replied in Matthew 19:21 that, ""If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

If Jesus is not good then why He told him to follow Him(Jesus)? Here is the whole passage:

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Mat 19:18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,'
Mat 19:19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Mat 19:20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

MENJ : Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say "Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD.

Sajita : Well, In the above verse Jesus was quoting the Old Testament verse and telling that this is the commandment. Jesus was not talking here about His God but Jesus was telling the scribe that what is the commandments of God.. read it again, not like you have quoted but in its entirety.... So there is no question of "your God"or "Our God"

Mark 12:28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?"
Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Mark 12:30 'And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31 "And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

MENJ : Other similar quotes:
Luke 22:42 "...not my will but Thine be done"
John 5:30 "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me."
John 7:16 "Jesus said: 'My doctrine is not my own; it comes from Him who sent me.'"
John 7:28-29 "...I have not come of myself. I was sent by One who has the right to send, and Him you do not know. I know Him because it is from Him I come; he sent me."
John 8:50 "And I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks and judges."
John 10:29 "My Father is greater than ALL."
John 14:28 "My Father is greater than I."
John 8:42 "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me."
Matthew 10:40; Mark 9:37; Luke 9:48; John 13:20 "Whoever welcomes me welcomes, not me, but Him who sent me."
John 20:17 "...Go to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "
If the above still would not convince you that Jesus is subject to the Father, perhaps the next words of Jesus would definately prove that the One who sends is greater than the one who was sent:

Sajita : I did not even bother to open my Bible because I knew you have quoted half and broken verses from here and there so please bring a Bible which is authorized version not your version then try to quote from ATHORIZED version. Don’t try to fool others with your broken version (I don’t know which version you are using)

MENJ :
JESUS' PRAYER
As demonstrated above, Jesus many times said that he is subject to The Father. As proof of this, throughout the Gospels Jesus prayed to God. This certainly argues against his being God. God would not pray to Himself.
Like Luke 22:42, the Gospel of Matthew reports that a very human Jesus became distressed in Gethsemane and turned to God for solace:
He advanced a little and fell prostrate in prayer. "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass me by. Still, let it be as you would have it, not as I" [Matthew 26:39]
There were times when Jesus felt the need to pray with special urgency. Luke reports that, on one occasion, Jesus prayed very hard:
In his anguish, Jesus prayed with all the greater intensity, and his sweat became like drops of blood falling to the ground. [Luke 22:44]
Jesus also prayed to God that the people might believe in him as God's messenger. This specifically defines the role of Jesus as deliverer of God's message:
...Jesus looked upward and said, "Father, I thank you for having heard me. I know that you always hear me but I have said this for the sake of the crowd, that they may believe that you sent me." [John 11:41-42]
One of the most compelling pieces of evidence that Jesus was not God is in the way that he taught the disciples to pray:
One day he was praying in a certain place. When he had finished, one of his disciples asked him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples." He said to them, "When you pray, say: `Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread, and forgive us the wrong we have done as we forgive those who wrong us. Subject us not to the trial but deliver us from the evil one.' " Luke 11:1-4, Matthew 6:9-13
Note that Jesus taught us to pray to the Father, our Creator, not to himself. In fact, he did not mention himself in any way, nor did he indicate that we should pray in his name. His instructions were very specific - we are to pray to God alone.
This would not be the case if Jesus himself were God.

Sajita : Yes, Jesus prayed and prayer is internal conversation with the father just like different parts of your body communicates with each other. Suppose you are going by car, suddenly a man jumped in front of your car. Your eyes saw the man and brain took the decision and without your knowledge you feet went on brake. The same thing is with Jesus, Father and the Holy Spirit. They communicate with each other and they have 3 different functions and they work in their own areas.

MENJ : That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.

Sajita : You are wrong again. Jesus many a times said, "I am my father are one" So there is no question of another supreme God. Jesus is the same God of Old Testament who came down in the form of a man. Jesus came into this world on his own, He gave His life on His own. He said in John 10:17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.

Very clearly He said that He is doing it on His own will not of any supreme being.

MENJ : So who is Jesus then? A man who told the truth which he heard from God. In other words, he was a messenger of God. When a clear statement like this is issued from the lips of Jesus, why wrangle with the passages that are not so clear, and try to twist them to mean the opposite of what Jesus has been saying in other clear verses all along?

Anyone who wishes to convince themselves that Jesus is God should look for clear evidence in the Bible to show that Jesus is God. But the clear evidence is to the contrary. The Bible teaches again and again that Jesus is not God, but a Servant of God (e.g. Matthew 12:18). In the very next chapter of John 9:35, Jesus declares that he is the Son of Man (RSV). And anyone who knows the Bible as the Israelites to whom Jesus spoke will know that a son of man cannot be God. The Bible declares that God is neither a man nor a son of man (Numbers 23:19).

Sajita : Jesus was born as a human in this world that’s why He was called Son of man. It shows that Jesus was 100% human and the same time He was called Son of God and that shows His quality of 100% God. So there is no question that Jesus was mere man who came and died and finished. NO, but Jesus was more than a mere man, a human being or a mere prophet. He is the ONE, TRUE and LIVING GOD. And there is no one beside Him..

MENJ : "How can he be called clean that is born of a woman? Behold even the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?"
Job 25:4-6

Sajita : True, But Jesus was not born as other human being born in this world. He is holy and born without the corrupted blood of human as He was born to a virgin. So He was pure and holy and His holiness was not corrupted by natural birth.

MENJ : Jesus (pbuh) never in his lifetime told anyone to worship him. It was others who did that. Quite the contrary, whenever Jesus (pbuh) spoke of worship, he always attributed it to God and never himself: "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" [Luke 4:8]. Notice the words: "Him ONLY." Jesus did not say "US only," or "Him and I only." How could he possibly make it more clear than that? What abstract meaning are we now going to concoct for this verse to show that what Jesus "really" meant was "worship BOTH of us"?
The problem with many apologists is that they "interpret" the words "he" and "him" to mean "we" and "us" when it suits them, and to mean "he" and "him" only when it suits them. In cases such as Luke 4:8, they claim that "him" really means "us." But in cases where God "begets" Jesus, or where God "sacrifices" Jesus, "him" and "he" is God alone and does not mean "us" and "we." Notice the trend?
Some Christians (but not all) claim that Jesus implied that he was God. From the above verses, we can see that Jesus have indeed clearly and explicitly denied being God, it now leaves to the Christians who believe that Jesus is God to provide just one single verse in the Bible where Jesus says "I am God". There is no such verse, as we see from the many quotes above. The House did not belong to Jesus, it belonged to the ONE WHO SENT him.

Sajita : Very funny!! Many a times Jesus said that, He is God. Let us see:-

Luke 6:5 And He said to them, "The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

John 3:15 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

MENJ :
Conclusion on Jesus' Position
The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what basis have you come to believe otherwise?

Sajita : It is your belief but not of those who really read the Bible and Quran. If you ever read the Bible you will know that who is God and who really Jesus is. There is no question that Jesus is not God because He is God almighty and there is no other God.

MENJ : Now, supposing Jesus peace be upon him were to appear before you and ask you these questions, what would you respond?
Why did you address your devotions to me? Did I ever direct you to do it, or propose myself as an object of religious worship?

Sajita : Yes, He did!

MENJ : Did I not uniformly and to the last set you an example myself of praying to the Father, to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God? [John 20:17]

Sajita : So does it mean that He is not God? Certainly not!

MENJ : When my disciples requested me to teach them to pray [Luke 11:1-2], did I teach them to pray to myself or to any other person but the Father?

Sajita : Sure, He did! It does not mean that He is not God.

MENJ : Did I ever call myself God, or tell you that I was the maker of the world and to be worshipped?

Sajita : Yes, He did and all the NT and OT is the proof of it.

MENJ : There has long been a great deal of debate among Christian theologians and scholars regarding the divinity of Jesus. This debate has intensified in recent years, and there seems to be an increasingly open concern over the truth of this doctrine. For example, the authors of THE MYTH OF GOD INCARNATE (The Westminster Press, 1977, p. ix) concluded that:
"Jesus was (as he is presented in Acts 2:21) 'a man approved by God' for a special role within the divine purpose, and...the later conception of him as God incarnate, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity living a human life, is a mythological or poetic way of expressing his significance for us."

Sajita : It may be a myth for you and whole world but not for me because He is the same Jesus who pulled me out of my sins, my problems, my tears and gave me a new life. There is none like Him.. You can read more about me at http:///bibleandquran.org/me.htm

MENJ : My friend, it is clear that Jesus alaihissalam followed the Mosaic law and did not claim divinity. According to the Bible, he was neither omniscient nor omnipotent. Given the fact that nowhere in the Bible do we see a direct identification of Jesus as God, and that Jesus strongly upheld all the commandments and emphasized the First Commandment, we can only conclude that the doctrine of Jesus' divinity has no foundation in the scripture nor in the life and teachings of Jesus. This concept is an innovation in Christian doctrine.
This may be a painful and radical conclusion for many. Painful because it is new and runs contrary to what we have always been taught. Radical only if we are not familiar with the historical development of the doctrine of Christ's divinity. The belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as presented in the Bible. God is one, not divided into three "sub-gods" to make a whole, or otherwise. He is a perfect unity. If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to Him, I invite you to learn about the religion of Islam.

Sajita : WRONG!! WRONG!! WRONG!! Please read my book "Is Jesus God?" the exerpts also available in my website at: http://bibleandquran.org/isjesusgod.htm

It is also available for purchase from http://bibleandquran.org/books.htm page.

MENJ : "They say: Allah has taken a son. Glorified be He! He has no needs! His is all that is in the heavens and that is in the earth. You have no warrant for this, do you say regarding Allah that which you know not?"
Sura' Yunus(10):68

Sajita : It is another proof that Allah is not all-knowing because he does not know that there is no physical son of God!!

Back to Debate page