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Earth is Flat according to Osama
This online debate took place in Muslim-Christian Dilogue forum.
Sajita: Bible does not
claim about flat earth as you said. Bible says 3 times that earth is round.
Circle is also translated as sphere in Hebrew.
Osama: In http://www.aol40.com/earth_flat.htm, I showed you verses from your bible that clearly and directly and unquestionably claim that the Earth is flat! The verses that you presented don't prove anything, and your desperate interpretations only show how weak your argument is.
Sajita: Let me bring your article here and reply:
Osama: The Bible claims that Earth has four ends and four corners. Nobody can ever think a ball or a cycle to have corners and ends! Only flat items can have corners and ends, and this is exactly what the bible is trying to express regarding the shape of the earth. The earth is not flat, as once thought and it has no corners or ends at all. If Magnetic Poles can be taken as ends or corners of earth, then this definitely opposed to the axis of rotation.
Sajita: What a childish argument? Ask your well educated scientist they will tell you that there are FOUR CORNERS of the earth! Did you ever hear about NORTH, SOUTH, EAST & WEST? It seems you never heard of it? Why scientist call 4 corners, arn't they educated, aren't they know that earth is round? If you think that there is no end of earth then why scientist say, ends of the earth? In Hindi we call it "Dunia ke KONE-KONE tak" "means ends(corners) of the earth" if you translate Kone-kone the literal meaning is CORNERS to Corners.
Osama: Isaiah 11:12
Sajita: That's right! This is a speaking language and still in use! Ask any 1st grader and he will tell you that these are FOUR CORNERS of the earth.
Osama: Job 38:13
Sajita: I replied this already so I am skipping this part!
Osama: Matthew 4:8
Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.
Sajita: Great! Did you ever hear about VISIONS? I hope not! It is not necessary that it might have shown literally but it may be shown in visions.. It does not make earth flat?
Osama: The Earth is flat and never moves?! The Sun hurries back to where it rises?!
The following verses from the Bible in this section were sent to me by Abdullah Bisyir; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
Sajita: Again it does not say that earth does not rotate or something like that but the foundation of earth was put by God and only it can be move form its place if God wants.
Osama: "The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Sajita: Again the same argument! Today also we use the same words, "sun set" and "sun rise" WHY? Why not scientist say "EARTH SETS" and "EARTH RISES"?
Osama: Well, I don't think there is any need for much explanation to the nonsense above! It is crystal clear that the Bible is full of man-made corruptions and alterations.
Sajita: Just because you are unable to understand the things of Bible then it became man-made? You believe on your scientist whose word change every day and every moment. First they say, earth rotates then they say no sun rotates.. you believe on them but how sad that you do not have eyes to see the UNCHANGING words of God that stands forever and forever.
Osama: Since when the Earth is flat and can never move?! We all know that the Earth and the other planets rotate and move in space around the Sun.
Since when the Sun hurries back to where it rises, like if there is some hole it rises from and another hole it sets through on Earth?!
Sajita: Do you think
Allah everyday rises sun from hole? Where the sun going after sunset?
Luqman 31:29 Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?
What does it mean when Allah merging day in night? and this verse also says as earth and sun is only running for a term appointed becasue sun goes down and not visible.. it does not run now but sleeping?
Osama: For those Jews and Christians who would like to see where in the Noble Quran does Allah Almighty say that the planets in space rotate and move, read the following Noble Verse:
"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"
Sajita: Try to read this
Does not it clearly say that Allah does not know where sun is going at night?
Osama: Does Isaiah 40:22 say that Earth is Round?
It is quite clear that the above Biblical Verses suggest and claim that the Earth is flat: "ends of all the earth", Jesus seeing all the Earth's kingdoms from the top of a mountain, and earth having "four corners", to earth's foundations are set and earth can never be moved, and the sun hurries to set from it rises all clearly state that the Earth is flat.
Sajita: Where does this verse say that the earth is flat? This verse very clearly says that earth is ROUND SHAPED, read this:Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Circle also means sphere in Hebrew!
Osama: Before I answer Isaiah 40:22, it is important to the Jewish and Christian reader to know that we Muslims don't believe that the entire Bible is corrupt. We believe that most of it had been either corrupted or lost. But today's Bible does have some truth in it.
Sajita: Why you believe that Bible is corrupted while Quran confirms that Bible is not corrupt. Bible was not corrupt until the day of Mohammed.. When did it corrupt?
Osama: Please visit What parts of the Bible do Muslims believe in?
By the way, I am not suggesting that Isaiah 40:22 is claiming that the Earth is round, as I will prove shortly that the Verse is ambiguous and not clear. But I just wanted to shed some light upon my Jewish and Christian readers as to where the Muslims stand regarding the Bible.
Sajita: Do you know that there are two more verses which clearly says the shape of earth as ROUND?
Osama: Let us look at what the Verse says:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 40:22)"
This verse doesn't suggest that the Earth is round. It actually suggests that the Earth has a circle object. "the circle of the earth" is pretty much self explanatory: It is the circle that belongs to or is owned by the Earth.
Sajita: That's right God drew a circle to create the earth as we read in Prov 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
Osama: Could it be the Moon that the Verse is referring to?
Sajita: May be referring to sun, who knows!
Osama: Could it be some Divine Circle that, like GOD Almighty and the Angels, we can't see with our naked eye that exists right above the North Pole?
- Where in Isaiah 40:22 do we see a claim that the Earth is round?
The Verse is obviously ambiguous and not clear if we wish to prove from it that the Earth is round. If we look at what the entire Bible says (as presented above by all the Verses) about the shape of the Earth as the Roman Catholic Church did, then we would reach the same conclusion they reached, and that is: The Earth is Flat!
Sajita: You want to prove that earth is flat so yea try hard, may be one day scientist may come up with your theory that yes, earth is flat!
Osama: Certainly, when Christopher Columbus thought that he could reach India by going west in the Atlantic ocean instead of east as it was traditionally done, the Church in Europe was afraid that he will eventually reach the "end of the earth" as the Bible clearly says that the Earth has ends in Job 38:13 and other verses as shown above, and fall off into the space and die.
Sajita: Yes, there are ends of earth and corners of earth. If you do not know this then try to learn the speaking language where it is commonly used terms.